Intersectional Psychology

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Transcript

00:00:22.840 Attention! Are you a health care provider?
00:00:27.279 if so you can earn continuous
00:00:30.160 professional development points
00:00:32.238 accredited by the Health Professions
00:00:34.239 Council of South Africa by watching a
00:00:37.360 different version of this
00:00:39.879 episode to get your points click on the
00:00:43.280 link in the show notes below or go to
00:00:46.480 aurora bcsounseling.com
00:00:49.440 that’s a u r o r a b c o u n s e l l i n
00:00:59.480 g.com and search for an introduction to
00:01:03.359 intersectional
00:01:05.960 psychology if you don’t need points then
00:01:09.439 welcome and let’s get on with the show
00:01:19.600 hello and welcome to Intersectional
00:01:23.000 Psychology the podcast that explores
00:01:25.520 psychology’s role in promoting social
00:01:28.600 justice i’m your host Aurora Brown i’m a
00:01:32.400 registered counselor in Cape Town South
00:01:35.479 Africa thank you so much for being here
00:01:38.720 i hope that you are well wherever you
00:01:41.200 are in the world and that you are
00:01:43.280 tapping into the resources around you to
00:01:46.240 take care of your mental
00:01:48.840 health this is our very first full-length
00:01:52.960 episode of the podcast and it has been a
00:01:56.960 long time in the making
00:02:00.240 a friend and mentor of mine clinical
00:02:03.399 psychologist Jeanie Cave taught me the
00:02:06.640 importance of creating mutual context
00:02:10.479 which is basically a shared
00:02:13.440 understanding of the time and the space
00:02:16.160 that we will be spending together or if
00:02:19.599 you prefer the rules of the game if you
00:02:23.360 and I are playing by different rules
00:02:26.000 then we’re not going to communicate
00:02:28.160 effectively and we’re not going to
00:02:30.720 understand each other
00:02:33.400 now this scenario is a little bit
00:02:36.239 different because it’s not a webinar or
00:02:39.440 a session where I can get immediate
00:02:41.920 feedback from you about where you’re at
00:02:45.440 or what you’re hoping to get out of the
00:02:48.280 podcast but I can hopefully help you set
00:02:52.080 expectations for what the podcast is
00:02:55.560 offering and of course if you are if you
00:02:59.920 do have any feedback you are welcome to
00:03:02.239 send it to me um I love talking about
00:03:06.080 all of this stuff which is why I started
00:03:08.400 a podcast so send me your feedback and I
00:03:12.319 will incorporate it into future episodes
00:03:17.280 so the first four episodes of the
00:03:20.000 podcast will form a series called
00:03:22.720 Dissecting Intersectional Psychology
00:03:25.680 which will basically be a starter pack
00:03:28.800 to create shared
00:03:31.159 context so that we are both playing by
00:03:34.480 the same rules and using the same
00:03:37.280 language going forward in the podcast
00:03:41.120 so today we are talking about
00:03:44.120 intersectionality and how it applies to
00:03:47.879 psychology the next episode will be
00:03:50.400 about social justice in the context of
00:03:54.519 psychology the third episode will answer
00:03:57.360 the question is it even the place of
00:04:00.480 psychology to promote social justice and
00:04:04.000 address intersectionality
00:04:06.879 and then the final episode in the series
00:04:09.760 will discuss what a model of
00:04:12.319 intersectional psychology should
00:04:14.560 actually look
00:04:16.519 like once a month I will also post a
00:04:20.478 guided mindfulness or relaxation
00:04:23.639 practice
00:04:25.320 because I don’t know about you but these
00:04:28.400 days I need all the help I can get to
00:04:31.680 relax
00:04:33.600 but back to
00:04:35.800 today this episode is going to be kind
00:04:39.199 of a beginner’s intro into the origins
00:04:42.639 and development of
00:04:45.080 intersectionality what we really mean
00:04:47.199 when we talk about
00:04:49.240 intersectionality and how it is going to
00:04:51.600 provide a platform for us to look at a
00:04:54.880 variety of mental health issues through
00:04:58.000 a social justice lens in the future
00:05:01.919 so come on in and we’ll get
00:05:14.039 started what is
00:05:16.280 intersectionality really about
00:05:29.120 ever felt like you didn’t fit neatly
00:05:31.759 into a
00:05:33.720 box welcome to the human
00:05:36.600 experience i sound like I’m making an
00:05:40.280 infomercial psychology loves categories
00:05:44.160 it loves to put us in boxes to label us
00:05:47.759 to diagnose us but life – life is
00:05:53.639 messy intersectionality helps us to
00:05:56.800 embrace and navigate that mess while
00:06:00.320 making psychology more just and
00:06:04.199 effective you’ve probably heard the term
00:06:06.919 intersectionality before but it’s not
00:06:10.240 just a trendy word to sprinkle into your
00:06:13.440 Instagram captions like salt in your
00:06:16.800 soup or sugar on your cereal
00:06:20.560 it’s a revolutionary framework with
00:06:23.759 roots in the lived experiences of
00:06:26.600 marginalized
00:06:28.199 communities particularly black
00:06:31.319 women Kimberle Crenshaw coined the term
00:06:34.639 in 1989 to describe how racism and
00:06:38.800 sexism interact to create unique forms
00:06:42.400 of disadvantage for black women
00:06:46.160 but black feminists had been
00:06:48.240 highlighting these overlapping
00:06:50.240 oppressions for
00:06:52.199 centuries from Sojourner Truth to the ANC
00:06:55.840 Women’s League from Maria W Stewart to
00:06:59.360 Pumla Dineo
00:07:01.160 Gqola so how does it work well
00:07:05.080 intersectionality reminds us that no one
00:07:08.080 is defined by a single label it’s not
00:07:12.000 just black or woman or queer or
00:07:17.240 disabled it’s the dynamic interplay of
00:07:20.560 these identities within systems of
00:07:25.400 power imagine the nervous system as a
00:07:29.520 highway connecting the brain to the
00:07:33.319 body incidents of trauma are like
00:07:37.039 accidents clogging up that highway and
00:07:40.800 mental health care should be regulating
00:07:43.599 and freeing up that
00:07:46.599 highway but now imagine an intersection
00:07:50.319 on that highway where there are multiple
00:07:53.599 lanes converging with traffic coming in
00:07:56.960 from all
00:07:59.400 directions each lane represents a
00:08:02.879 different axis of oppression or
00:08:06.160 privilege
00:08:07.840 race gender class
00:08:11.560 sexuality when these intersect the
00:08:14.960 outcomes aren’t just additive they’re
00:08:19.080 compounded we all know people don’t
00:08:21.879 behave logically in during rush hour in
00:08:26.240 clogged up traffic every incident of
00:08:29.879 racism sexism classism or queer phobia
00:08:33.919 is a capsule of trauma that represents
00:08:37.200 another car at the
00:08:39.719 intersection it’s not racism plus sexism
00:08:43.599 plus classism it’s how these factors are
00:08:47.279 exacerbating each other honking their
00:08:50.640 horns at each other shouting out the
00:08:52.640 windows if you will
00:08:55.120 how are the mental health effects of
00:08:57.720 racism interacting with the mental
00:09:00.399 health effects of sexism for
00:09:05.320 example the more cars of oppression
00:09:08.240 there are that converge into one
00:09:11.279 identity or one person the more
00:09:14.839 congested the traffic is going to be the
00:09:18.320 more stress is going to be crammed into
00:09:20.720 that nervous system
00:09:23.080 so those are the lanes of
00:09:26.120 oppression but every level every lane of
00:09:29.440 power like being white or male or
00:09:32.959 wealthy or cisgender or straight is an
00:09:36.959 offramp that gets you out of the traffic
00:09:39.839 jam and allows your nervous system to
00:09:42.959 move more freely
00:09:45.839 in 2020 Elizabeth Cole discussed the
00:09:48.640 concept of intersectional invisibility
00:09:52.080 which highlights that a person holding
00:09:54.480 two marginalized statuses for example
00:09:57.839 women of
00:09:59.240 color that person is not viewed as
00:10:02.160 representative of either group and is
00:10:05.360 therefore overlooked by dominant group
00:10:08.160 members
00:10:09.839 for example I am both an amputee and a
00:10:13.760 transgender woman so when I am with
00:10:16.800 other amputees I’m less likely to be
00:10:19.839 seen as representative of that group
00:10:22.880 because my transness sets me
00:10:25.720 apart whereas when I’m in a group of
00:10:28.160 trans people I may be rendered invisible
00:10:31.360 due to my
00:10:33.079 disability many people when they meet me
00:10:36.240 the first thing they see is the
00:10:38.240 wheelchair so they don’t even clock
00:10:40.880 anything else about
00:10:42.920 me this phenomenon of intersectional
00:10:46.680 invisibility is usually discussed in the
00:10:49.760 context of our natural human tendency to
00:10:53.600 use
00:10:55.160 prototypes but it is also grounded in
00:10:58.560 power dynamics
00:11:01.120 as Cole puts it the socially dominant
00:11:03.920 group will often have the power to
00:11:06.320 define its in-group norms as the standard
00:11:10.079 for society as a
00:11:12.519 whole since white people have been the
00:11:15.279 socially dominant group in the modern
00:11:17.839 western context whiteness tends to
00:11:21.279 define the societal norm in most western
00:11:24.480 nations
00:11:28.800 in 2016 Patricia Hill Collins and Sirma
00:11:33.480 Bilge consolidated the core principles of
00:11:37.480 intersectionality which are going to
00:11:39.360 serve as our guideposts for adopting an
00:11:42.480 intersectional lens these are social
00:11:46.760 inequality power
00:11:49.880 relationality context complexity and
00:11:53.920 justice
00:11:56.720 now let’s look at each of these in a bit
00:11:59.040 more
00:12:00.040 depth firstly social inequality invites
00:12:04.079 us to ask who benefits and who
00:12:08.040 doesn’t inequality isn’t a cosmic
00:12:11.639 accident it’s a meticulously crafted
00:12:15.200 system
00:12:16.800 whether we’re talking about health care
00:12:19.639 education or even who gets to feel safe
00:12:22.800 walking down the street some folks are
00:12:25.839 born with these securities as a given
00:12:29.680 while others never gain access to them
00:12:32.480 their whole
00:12:34.200 lives and sadly the barriers between the
00:12:38.320 most privileged and the least privileged
00:12:41.519 remain very difficult to cross
00:12:46.279 intersectionality challenges us to look
00:12:49.120 beyond the obvious and interrogate who
00:12:52.480 benefits and how these benefits are
00:12:57.160 distributed think of it this way if life
00:13:01.040 were
00:13:02.120 Monopoly it would be very boring
00:13:06.560 but if life was a game of Monopoly then
00:13:09.279 some players are handed extra cash and
00:13:12.399 hotels before the game even
00:13:15.160 begins and the others they’re given
00:13:18.800 properties with higher rents fewer
00:13:22.360 utilities and a set of dice that are
00:13:26.079 loaded against them
00:13:29.720 intersectionality asks us why is this
00:13:33.120 board rigged and how do we flip
00:13:36.600 it power is the invisible
00:13:41.560 puppeteer so let’s talk about power the
00:13:44.959 kind you don’t see but feel in every
00:13:48.399 aspect of life
00:13:50.880 power decides who gets heard who gets
00:13:54.279 silenced and who gets to decide the
00:13:57.120 rules of the
00:13:58.279 game spoiler alert it’s not always the
00:14:01.600 loudest voice in the room it’s often the
00:14:04.560 one who owns the room so no one else
00:14:07.680 even stands a chance
00:14:10.560 for example in workplaces women of color
00:14:14.000 are often overlooked for promotions not
00:14:17.519 because they lack talent but because
00:14:20.320 power structures weren’t designed with
00:14:22.639 them in
00:14:24.120 mind look at Donald Trump and Elon Musk
00:14:27.440 right now literally erasing all
00:14:31.440 diversity from governmental workplaces
00:14:36.000 and let’s not forget how power operates
00:14:38.480 in counseling rooms if your client fears
00:14:42.160 being judged because of their accent
00:14:45.600 their skin color or
00:14:47.639 sexuality that’s power at
00:14:50.680 play even if a counselor doesn’t hold
00:14:53.839 any biases or prejudices against aspects
00:14:57.440 of their client’s identity if the client
00:15:00.639 fears that because of their experiences
00:15:04.240 with other people like the counselor
00:15:07.120 then there is already a huge power
00:15:10.079 differential
00:15:12.639 so don’t take it for granted that
00:15:14.880 someone else is going to assume you
00:15:17.199 don’t have any
00:15:18.680 biases because they can’t take their
00:15:21.519 safety for granted when going into any
00:15:25.040 unfamiliar
00:15:27.639 situation intersectionality forces us to
00:15:31.000 ask who’s in control and how do we
00:15:34.959 redistribute that more equitably
00:15:39.199 a good place to start is making the
00:15:42.079 implicit explicit by asking clients or
00:15:46.320 people directly “How does it feel being
00:15:49.440 a black person with a white
00:15:52.279 counselor?” “How does it feel being a
00:15:54.959 queer person with a straight
00:15:58.040 counselor when are you most aware of
00:16:01.199 your gender setting you apart from
00:16:03.600 others?”
00:16:08.279 Thirdly
00:16:09.959 relationality our experiences are
00:16:14.040 interconnected your struggle and low
00:16:16.399 your liberation is not isolated from
00:16:19.560 mine and the more we act like it is the
00:16:22.959 longer oppression will
00:16:25.399 thrive intersectionality embraces
00:16:29.240 relationality reminding us that
00:16:31.800 inequalities don’t operate in silos
00:16:36.360 picture this you’re in a boat with a
00:16:40.399 bunch of
00:16:41.560 people some are rowing with oars some
00:16:45.759 have holes in their seats and a few are
00:16:49.120 trying to row with their
00:16:52.040 hands intersectionality says “Look we’re
00:16:55.920 all in this boat together we’re all
00:16:59.120 going to sink or swim or float together
00:17:03.839 so maybe it’s time we redistribute those
00:17:07.039 oars and patch those
00:17:09.319 holes together come on girls grab an or
00:17:12.799 let’s go it’s about solidarity not
00:17:18.119 saviorism helping because we’re
00:17:20.760 connected not because it makes us feel
00:17:23.799 good although it does also make us feel
00:17:30.200 good fourthly context
00:17:34.000 history politics and culture matter even
00:17:38.080 in
00:17:40.120 psychology at the time of recording
00:17:42.960 Donald Trump has been the president of
00:17:45.039 the United States of America for 2
00:17:47.720 months for the second
00:17:50.440 time this time he was very blatantly
00:17:54.160 assisted by a swath of billionaires most
00:17:58.559 notably South African-born Elon Musk
00:18:03.039 see there’s relationality again as a
00:18:06.240 South African by virtue of my
00:18:08.919 nationality I am connected to Elon Musk
00:18:13.760 as much as I wish it weren’t
00:18:16.440 true and in the eyes of many Americans
00:18:20.160 as a white South African Elon Musk’s
00:18:23.120 actions reflect on me even though I’ve
00:18:27.280 never met the man and have no desire to
00:18:30.799 do so
00:18:32.720 but let’s get back to
00:18:35.080 context since his first day in office
00:18:38.640 Donald Trump has already signed hundreds
00:18:41.840 of executive orders that are
00:18:44.360 demonstrably changing the lives of
00:18:47.280 many people in America and around the
00:18:50.559 world
00:18:53.039 trump shut down all PEPFAR and USAID
00:18:57.360 funding to South Africa and many other
00:19:00.400 countries in Africa and the developing
00:19:03.720 world now tens of millions of people
00:19:07.760 have no access to the lifesaving HIV TB
00:19:13.679 gender affirming and sexual and
00:19:15.919 reproductive health care they need to
00:19:19.559 survive that impacts not only their own
00:19:23.039 mental health but also the mental health
00:19:25.840 of all of those around them and
00:19:29.120 supporting
00:19:31.640 them the South African government is
00:19:35.039 figuring out an alternative solution for
00:19:38.240 our people with many of those patients
00:19:41.600 being transferred to their local state
00:19:44.640 clinics
00:19:46.720 but it will come at the cost of other
00:19:50.080 things the government needs to
00:19:53.559 fund and what about all of those other
00:19:57.160 countries in Africa and the developing
00:20:00.240 world that are barely managing to stay
00:20:03.919 afloat even when they were receiving aid
00:20:08.320 aid that was necessitated by centuries
00:20:12.880 of exploitation from western
00:20:16.840 countries and in the meantime all these
00:20:19.760 patients even in South Africa are going
00:20:21.919 to be stressing about where and when and
00:20:25.360 how they are going to get their
00:20:28.520 medications even with our government
00:20:31.039 coming up with another plan there are
00:20:33.760 people in rural areas with very limited
00:20:37.600 access to
00:20:39.400 information will they be able to find
00:20:42.000 out how to access their care before
00:20:45.039 their health is irreparably harmed
00:20:50.919 intersectionality asks us to think about
00:20:53.919 all of these factors and take our
00:20:56.600 responsibilities as health care
00:20:58.799 providers or as human beings seriously
00:21:02.720 and to advocate for the weakest among
00:21:07.240 us but intersectionality doesn’t take a
00:21:12.200 one-size-fits-all approach it recognizes
00:21:15.520 that history politics and culture shape
00:21:19.440 every
00:21:21.240 experience what works in one context
00:21:24.480 might fail spectacularly in
00:21:27.559 another we have to adapt our approach to
00:21:30.880 the context and the people to which it
00:21:35.240 applies take the feminist movement for
00:21:37.919 example while equal pay for equal work
00:21:41.919 is vital it means something very
00:21:45.200 different for a white middleclass woman
00:21:48.159 in the corporate world than for an
00:21:50.799 undocumented immigrant of color cleaning
00:21:53.760 hotel
00:21:55.320 rooms intersectionality reminds us that
00:21:58.960 context matters honey and it urges us to
00:22:03.039 tailor our actions to the realities that
00:22:05.679 people face
00:22:10.159 fifthly
00:22:12.120 complexity life is messy and
00:22:15.320 intersectionality holds that
00:22:18.440 messiness life is full of contradictions
00:22:21.679 and gray
00:22:23.320 areas intersectionality helps us to
00:22:26.799 color in those
00:22:29.320 grays imagine someone who’s both
00:22:32.080 privileged and
00:22:34.520 marginalized a queer white man who’s
00:22:38.880 wealthy but
00:22:41.080 disabled they might hold power in one
00:22:43.960 context while in another they are
00:22:47.039 marginalized or
00:22:49.159 othered intersectionality says let’s
00:22:52.400 unpack that it’s not about ranking
00:22:56.240 identities but understanding how they
00:22:59.200 interact to create unique experiences
00:23:03.919 complexity isn’t a bug it’s a
00:23:07.240 feature so in working with a queer
00:23:10.720 educated black woman we don’t only think
00:23:14.320 about how her queerness affects her life
00:23:17.520 or how her gender affects her life or
00:23:21.039 how her race affects her life we think
00:23:24.400 about all of those dimensions and how
00:23:27.760 they complicate each other
00:23:30.880 when she visits her family in the
00:23:32.799 township she has to be mindful of her
00:23:35.600 safety as a woman and as queer and even
00:23:39.840 more as a queer
00:23:42.200 woman when she’s on the university
00:23:44.640 campus those concerns might be a bit
00:23:47.600 less
00:23:48.600 prominent but on campus it might be her
00:23:52.080 race or ethnicity that makes her feel
00:23:54.960 more othered and
00:23:58.440 marginalized more think about a
00:24:01.360 conventionally attractive blonde white
00:24:04.360 woman on the surface we might think she
00:24:07.600 has everything going for her but
00:24:10.679 meanwhile everywhere she goes she is
00:24:13.360 treated like a poppie a doll a bimbo and
00:24:17.279 an airhead
00:24:19.360 and so she carries the fear of that
00:24:22.559 expectation into every
00:24:25.240 situation doubting herself and wondering
00:24:28.000 if anyone is going to respect her ideas
00:24:31.279 and her
00:24:35.159 voice sixthly justice intersectionality
00:24:40.080 isn’t just about understanding the world
00:24:43.840 it’s about changing it
00:24:47.120 think of justice as the engine driving
00:24:50.159 the intersectionality car it’s not
00:24:53.360 enough to recognize injustice we have to
00:24:57.039 challenge
00:24:58.120 it whether that’s advocating for policy
00:25:01.640 change amplifying marginalized voices or
00:25:06.320 rethinking how we approach counseling
00:25:09.480 intersectionality demands that we do
00:25:12.000 something
00:25:14.080 as Kimberle Crenshaw puts it it’s not
00:25:17.440 identity politics on steroids it’s a
00:25:20.720 tool for dismantling
00:25:24.279 inequality think about Sojourner Truth’s
00:25:27.279 famous speech “Ain’t I a woman?” in 1851
00:25:33.120 truth demanded recognition as both black
00:25:36.880 and a woman in a world that denied her
00:25:40.880 the full humanity of
00:25:43.960 either intersectionality continues this
00:25:47.279 demand urging us to see the full picture
00:25:50.799 of human experience
00:26:02.400 why psychology needs intersectionality
00:26:22.240 let’s be honest psychology hasn’t always
00:26:25.919 done a great job representing diverse
00:26:30.360 experiences historically it’s been
00:26:33.120 dominated by white male cisgender
00:26:37.559 perspectives leading to theories and
00:26:40.640 practices that often exclude or pathologize
00:26:44.720 marginalized
00:26:46.919 groups ever heard of Maslow’s hierarchy
00:26:49.840 of needs it’s a lovely theory but it’s
00:26:53.600 rooted in western individualistic values
00:26:58.640 how might it look different if it were
00:27:00.960 informed by indigenous and collectivist
00:27:06.600 perspectives shin and colleagues in 2017
00:27:10.400 revealed that only 40 out of
00:27:15.400 6,700 articles in major counseling
00:27:18.960 psychology journals over a period of 15
00:27:22.679 years explicitly focused on
00:27:25.120 intersectionality
00:27:27.520 that’s less than
00:27:30.279 1% this neglect isn’t just an academic
00:27:35.159 oversight it has real consequences for
00:27:38.240 how we understand and support
00:27:41.799 people consider for example mental
00:27:44.880 health disparities
00:27:47.200 queer women face unique stressors from
00:27:50.400 the intersection of homophobia and
00:27:53.240 sexism leading to higher rates of
00:27:56.159 conditions like depression and
00:27:59.399 anxiety but standard therapeutic models
00:28:02.559 often fail to address these intersecting
00:28:07.480 factors a black woman experiencing
00:28:10.480 workplace discrimination isn’t just
00:28:13.279 dealing with stress she is navigating
00:28:16.480 systemic racism and sexism that shape
00:28:19.760 her mental
00:28:21.240 health without
00:28:23.320 intersectionality psychology risks
00:28:25.600 falling into the silo effect we study
00:28:29.360 race gender and class in isolation as if
00:28:33.760 they don’t interact
00:28:37.399 intersectionality demands that we look
00:28:39.919 at the full complexity of human
00:28:42.919 experience challenging us to ask better
00:28:46.440 questions and design more inclusive
00:28:49.679 practices
00:29:02.679 intersectionality in
00:29:18.760 practice so how do we apply
00:29:22.440 intersectionality in real-world
00:29:25.799 psychology let’s explore three areas
00:29:30.200 counseling research and
00:29:35.480 education
00:29:37.240 counseling imagine you’re a counselor
00:29:39.600 working with a queer immigrant woman
00:29:42.240 with a
00:29:43.640 disability intersectionality asks you to
00:29:46.720 see the whole person not just their
00:29:49.880 queerness their immigrant status or
00:29:52.640 their disability but how these
00:29:55.200 identities interact to shape their
00:29:58.000 experiences
00:30:00.720 maybe this client faces barriers to
00:30:03.440 accessing health care due to both
00:30:06.240 ableism and
00:30:08.840 xenophobia maybe she has trouble getting
00:30:11.679 to a health care provider due to her
00:30:14.080 disability
00:30:16.080 maybe once she expended most of her
00:30:18.720 energy to reach the clinic or the
00:30:21.159 practice the receptionist or the nursing
00:30:24.000 staff treat her with disdain or
00:30:27.000 carelessness because she is an
00:30:29.720 immigrant by the time she finally gets
00:30:32.320 to see the doctor or the counselor she
00:30:35.279 has experienced even more trauma just in
00:30:38.720 order to get help
00:30:41.440 your role isn’t just to provide
00:30:43.679 individual support but also to
00:30:46.480 understand and challenge the systemic
00:30:49.279 factors impacting her
00:30:51.799 life an intersectional approach also
00:30:55.120 means examining your own
00:30:57.880 biases are you unconsciously
00:31:01.000 prioritizing certain aspects of a
00:31:03.279 client’s identity over
00:31:05.640 others for instance focusing solely on
00:31:09.520 their queerness might overlook how racism
00:31:12.799 shapes their
00:31:14.039 experiences and hence their presenting
00:31:18.440 complaint or how queerness is perceived
00:31:22.000 in their particular
00:31:24.919 culture second area
00:31:27.960 research when looking at research
00:31:30.480 Elizabeth Cole’s three question
00:31:33.039 framework offers a practical guide for
00:31:36.440 incorporating intersectionality into
00:31:40.600 research her first question is who is
00:31:44.000 included within this
00:31:45.799 category when studying women are you
00:31:49.679 only including white middleclass
00:31:53.320 participants and if you don’t have
00:31:55.519 access to women of other demographics
00:31:58.640 which is fine if you don’t have access
00:32:01.360 you don’t have access but are you at
00:32:04.240 least considering what impact that is
00:32:06.960 going to have on your
00:32:09.320 research are you framing that in your
00:32:12.159 research and in the conclusions and
00:32:14.960 recommendations you make
00:32:19.519 Cole’s second question is “What role
00:32:22.240 does inequality
00:32:24.440 play?” How do systems like racism and
00:32:28.000 sexism shape the experiences that you’re
00:32:34.840 studying her third question is “What
00:32:38.080 similarities exist across categories
00:32:42.559 for example what can we learn by
00:32:45.760 comparing the parenting strategies of
00:32:48.799 black and brown families in addressing
00:32:51.279 systemic
00:32:53.399 racism and I would add a fourth
00:32:56.679 question how are you treating the people
00:32:59.440 included in your research
00:33:02.720 are they your
00:33:04.679 subjects or are they participants and
00:33:08.760 co-creators of the research
00:33:20.519 outcomes as Crenshaw and Grzanka pointed out
00:33:24.159 in
00:33:25.159 2014 without
00:33:27.399 intersectionality research risks
00:33:29.600 perpetuating the very inequities
00:33:32.399 it seeks to
00:33:34.360 address so if it doesn’t critique
00:33:37.360 systems of power it’s not
00:33:41.000 intersectionality it’s just diversity on
00:33:45.000 autopilot checking the
00:33:49.240 boxes thirdly
00:33:52.360 education in education teaching
00:33:55.799 intersectionality means moving beyond
00:33:58.799 surface level diversity training it’s
00:34:02.080 about helping students and professionals
00:34:05.120 understand both privilege and
00:34:08.839 oppression for example a white cisgender
00:34:13.440 male psychology student might need to
00:34:16.560 grapple with his own privilege and how
00:34:19.440 it shapes his understanding of mental
00:34:22.399 health
00:34:24.480 conversely a student from a marginalized
00:34:28.119 background might need tools to navigate
00:34:31.599 the systemic barriers they’ll encounter
00:34:34.239 in the
00:34:35.399 field because even working in the health
00:34:38.639 care sector they might have a sexist
00:34:41.918 boss or a racist colleague or a
00:34:45.918 transphobic job
00:34:48.119 interviewer or they might end up working
00:34:50.800 in a hospital that is adapted for
00:34:53.440 wheelchair using clients but not
00:34:56.079 disabled
00:34:57.640 staff i have actually been to a hospital
00:35:00.880 in my wheelchair where my psychiatrist
00:35:04.079 needed to come down and find a dingy
00:35:08.560 unused room for us to meet in because
00:35:11.839 there was no wheelchair access to her
00:35:16.200 office because whoever designed the
00:35:19.320 hospital literally the place that
00:35:21.599 provides health
00:35:23.720 care couldn’t conceive that a disabled
00:35:27.440 person might need mental health care in
00:35:30.800 addition to physical health
00:35:33.720 care i could get to the orthopedics and
00:35:37.640 physiotherapy departments but not to
00:35:40.720 psychiatric and mental health care
00:35:44.320 and what if I a wheelchair using
00:35:47.119 counselor had gotten a job in that
00:35:50.599 hospital where would they have put me in
00:35:53.680 the supply
00:35:55.000 closets
00:35:57.160 honey and can you guess what would have
00:36:00.960 avoided that major design
00:36:05.800 flaw having an intersectional lens
00:36:10.960 but bringing it all back the key here is
00:36:14.520 nuance intersectionality isn’t about
00:36:18.240 guilt or
00:36:19.720 blame it’s about awareness and
00:36:34.520 action challenges and push back
00:36:52.480 let’s talk about the
00:36:55.000 backlash some people say
00:36:58.040 intersectionality is too
00:37:00.680 complicated or it’s just a buzz word or
00:37:05.119 it’s DEI – as if that’s a bad thing
00:37:09.359 to them I
00:37:10.680 say girl if understanding human
00:37:15.119 complexity is too
00:37:17.560 hard psychology might not be your
00:37:21.720 field there’s also a tendency to co-opt
00:37:26.440 intersectionality turning it into a box
00:37:29.119 ticking exercise
00:37:31.520 this is what scholars like Cole, Brewster
00:37:34.560 and Molina call weak
00:37:38.119 intersectionality acknowledging multiple
00:37:40.839 identities without critiquing the
00:37:43.599 systems of power that shape
00:37:46.359 them for example a company might
00:37:49.760 celebrate having a diverse workforce
00:37:52.960 while ignoring the wage gaps that exist
00:37:55.760 between people of different genders and
00:37:59.280 races
00:38:01.280 ignoring the discriminatory practices
00:38:03.680 that persist within their
00:38:07.960 organization intersectionality fatigue
00:38:10.640 is another
00:38:12.359 challenge people especially those in
00:38:15.839 privileged positions get tired of being
00:38:18.960 asked to examine their
00:38:21.800 biases but discomfort is a sign of
00:38:25.320 growth if you’re not uncomfortable
00:38:27.839 you’re not learning
00:38:30.480 and those biases that people are tired
00:38:33.839 of
00:38:35.000 examining are meanwhile actively tiring
00:38:38.640 out and creating obstacles for the
00:38:41.800 marginalized targets of the
00:38:46.359 biases also let’s address the academic
00:38:50.000 appropriation of intersectionality
00:38:53.839 i just want to re-emphasize Cole’s point
00:38:57.000 that too often it’s treated as a trendy
00:39:01.480 concept divorced from its radical roots
00:39:05.040 in black feminist
00:39:07.960 activism intersectionality isn’t just
00:39:11.119 about recognizing
00:39:13.079 diversity it’s about dismantling
00:39:16.440 oppression and if we take their work
00:39:19.280 without crediting the black feminists
00:39:22.320 who pioneered this field then we are
00:39:25.440 simply perpetuating and compounding the
00:39:28.640 centuries of labor that has been stolen
00:39:31.200 from them
00:39:33.280 that’s why Elizabeth Cole introduced the
00:39:36.240 concept of responsible stewardship for
00:39:39.680 those of us who are less marginalized to
00:39:43.359 practice
00:39:44.680 intersectionality while respecting and
00:39:47.440 acknowledging its
00:39:50.599 roots and part of the push back is often
00:39:54.000 because the people who have always held
00:39:57.119 the most power traditionally white
00:40:01.119 cisgender heterosexual men have fostered
00:40:05.119 this scarcity mindset in which if
00:40:09.040 marginalized people are given more
00:40:11.359 resources or more power then it means
00:40:14.480 there won’t be enough left for them the
00:40:17.680 people who always have had the
00:40:21.240 power but it doesn’t have to be that
00:40:25.160 way that’s what this idea of
00:40:28.440 intersectionality and liberation is all
00:40:32.040 about changing the system that ensures
00:40:35.680 there can only be so many jobs and only
00:40:39.200 so many resources to go around
00:40:42.880 it’s about realizing that each of us can
00:40:45.920 only truly thrive without fear of lack
00:40:49.920 if we all
00:40:51.640 thrive because if no one needs anything
00:40:54.800 more then we don’t have to fear them
00:40:57.599 taking stuff away from
00:41:00.440 us think about the climate crisis the
00:41:04.160 planet is getting warmer whether we
00:41:06.240 acknowledge it or not
00:41:09.760 but all of these energy companies who
00:41:12.520 have used Trump’s presidency as an
00:41:15.760 excuse to abandon their moves towards
00:41:18.880 renewable energy sources and have dug
00:41:21.920 further into fossil
00:41:24.119 fuels they’re multi-millionaire leaders
00:41:27.680 like Andrew McKenzie and Wael Sawan of
00:41:31.800 Shell Patrick Puyanne of Total
00:41:35.560 Energies Murray Auchincloss of BP Mike
00:41:40.000 Worth of Chevron and no I’m not even
00:41:44.319 going to mention Darren Woods of Exxon
00:41:47.359 Mobile because they’ve never even
00:41:50.040 pretended to acknowledge that the
00:41:52.480 climate crisis is real
00:41:55.359 but these leaders might be making
00:41:58.200 themselves and their shareholders richer
00:42:01.599 right
00:42:02.839 now but how long before their own
00:42:06.480 regions become unlivable
00:42:10.200 too and this matters to us as healthcare
00:42:13.800 workers especially in South
00:42:16.839 Africa because which places are being
00:42:20.160 worst affected by the climate crisis
00:42:24.640 island nations and sub-Saharan
00:42:29.000 Africa yes the most marginalized people
00:42:32.960 in these communities are currently
00:42:35.359 bearing the brunt of the
00:42:37.319 crisis because they have less secure
00:42:40.359 housing and are less able to insulate
00:42:43.760 themselves against the heat and the cold
00:42:46.640 and the extreme weather events
00:42:50.800 but very, very soon even the most
00:42:54.480 privileged among us will pay the price
00:42:58.000 unless we hold accountable those who are
00:43:01.520 most able to change the course of the
00:43:04.720 climate
00:43:07.960 catastrophe many homes in California are
00:43:11.680 already
00:43:12.920 uninsurable due to the frequency and the
00:43:15.839 intensity of the wildfires there
00:43:19.680 and sure those are among the most
00:43:22.640 wealthy people on the planet but if
00:43:25.760 their homes burn down and are
00:43:28.839 uninsured then they lose that value
00:43:31.800 completely not to mention the feeling of
00:43:34.760 safety security and belonging that comes
00:43:38.240 from a home shared with
00:43:41.079 family they don’t get reimbursed for
00:43:43.680 that
00:43:45.760 how long before the homes in our
00:43:48.079 wealthiest neighborhoods are also
00:43:51.000 uninsurable due to frequent and extreme
00:43:54.319 weather
00:43:56.440 conditions how do all of these
00:43:59.400 concerns not to mention the concern for
00:44:01.920 the future of our children impact our
00:44:04.960 clients mental health
00:44:09.280 so here are some common complaints
00:44:12.560 against
00:44:14.200 intersectionality and how to respond to
00:44:16.960 each of
00:44:19.880 them firstly intersectionality is just
00:44:24.000 identity politics on
00:44:27.480 steroids reality check it’s about
00:44:30.400 analyzing power not making anyone a
00:44:35.880 victim it’s too complicated
00:44:39.839 reality check so is human
00:44:42.680 experience get used to
00:44:45.720 it complaint psychology should be
00:44:50.280 neutral reality check science isn’t
00:44:54.760 neutral it reflects who funds it and
00:44:58.800 conducts it and their own value
00:45:02.920 systems and this has real-world
00:45:05.520 consequences for real life people
00:45:10.079 have you ever seen that illustration
00:45:12.400 that depicts the difference between
00:45:15.560 equality and equity if you’re watching
00:45:19.200 this on YouTube I will put the image on
00:45:22.880 the screen um but I’ll also include it
00:45:26.079 on the website with a link in the show
00:45:28.920 notes but I’m going to describe it as
00:45:31.920 well so it depicts three people trying
00:45:35.520 to watch a sporting event but they are
00:45:38.480 all standing behind a
00:45:40.839 fence each person is of a different
00:45:43.960 height so in this situation the tallest
00:45:47.440 person obviously has an advantage
00:45:50.560 because they can see over the fence most
00:45:55.000 easily equality means giving each person
00:45:58.960 exactly the same size box to stand on in
00:46:02.800 order to see over the
00:46:04.839 fence and even with this box the
00:46:08.079 shortest person is still unable to see
00:46:10.960 over the
00:46:12.200 fence but it’s fine right because it’s
00:46:17.000 equal everyone gets the
00:46:20.359 same on the other hand equity means
00:46:23.760 giving each person what they need in
00:46:27.200 order to participate at the same level
00:46:30.800 so the tallest person isn’t given a box
00:46:33.680 at all because they don’t need it the
00:46:37.200 person of medium height is given one box
00:46:40.480 because that’s all they need in order to
00:46:43.800 see and the shortest person is given
00:46:47.119 three boxes because that is what they
00:46:50.480 need in order to be on the same level as
00:46:54.079 the others
00:46:57.119 now the third window in this
00:46:59.599 illustration doesn’t show equality or
00:47:03.319 equity instead it shows what is often
00:47:06.480 the reality where the tallest person
00:47:09.599 with the most advantage is given six
00:47:13.079 boxes the person of medium height is
00:47:16.079 given one box and the shortest person is
00:47:20.240 not given any boxes
00:47:23.040 in fact they are stuck in a ditch and a
00:47:26.720 perfect example for this is what’s been
00:47:29.119 happening recently with the reelection
00:47:31.680 of Donald
00:47:33.079 Trump the world’s richest man Elon Musk
00:47:37.440 has been given free reign to gut the
00:47:41.280 governmental departments that award
00:47:43.599 contracts to his own companies
00:47:48.079 and under his influence Trump has
00:47:50.319 stopped all PEPAR and USID payments to
00:47:54.480 projects in the developing
00:47:56.920 world he has bullied vulnerable
00:48:00.079 countries like Ukraine and
00:48:03.240 Palestine he has threatened less
00:48:06.160 powerful countries like Greenland with
00:48:10.680 invasion he’s bombed resisting countries
00:48:13.839 like Yemen Syria and Palestine
00:48:18.079 not to mention taking away the rights of
00:48:20.640 marginalized people in his own
00:48:24.440 country at what point do our leaders say
00:48:31.480 enough now there is an alternative
00:48:34.800 version of that equality versus equity
00:48:39.640 illustration on this version the reality
00:48:43.200 window is replaced by a liberation
00:48:47.640 window in this window none of the
00:48:50.720 spectators need any boxes or aids to
00:48:54.400 overcome their
00:48:55.720 challenges because there is no fence
00:48:58.960 blocking the spectator’s view
00:49:02.160 in other words the systemic barriers
00:49:05.119 that created those challenges in the
00:49:07.520 first place have been
00:49:10.680 removed and that is the point of
00:49:14.040 intersectional liberatory and social
00:49:16.880 justice
00:49:29.559 psychology moving forward to transform
00:49:47.720 psychology how do we ensure that
00:49:50.680 intersectionality isn’t just a buzzword
00:49:54.079 but a transformative force in psychology
00:49:58.280 here are three actionable
00:50:02.760 steps start with advocacy and
00:50:06.200 policy intersectionality must inform
00:50:09.920 everything from curriculum design to
00:50:13.200 healthcare
00:50:14.520 policies whether that’s policy at a
00:50:17.440 governmental level provincial level or
00:50:20.400 even at the level of your own
00:50:22.160 organization
00:50:24.319 a colleague of mine recently advertised
00:50:26.800 a counseling room for rent i inquired if
00:50:30.400 it was still available and he said “Yes
00:50:34.319 but oh it’s on the second floor and
00:50:37.359 there’s no
00:50:38.680 lift.” So I as a wheelchair using
00:50:41.880 counselor wouldn’t be able to use it nor
00:50:45.920 would any potential client who uses
00:50:48.319 assistive devices
00:50:51.680 don’t you think that’s an important
00:50:53.599 aspect to include in the
00:50:56.760 advertisement and I’m not blaming my
00:50:59.240 colleague for him and for most people
00:51:02.559 that consideration is so outside their
00:51:05.680 frame of reference that they never
00:51:08.160 consider
00:51:09.160 it i probably wouldn’t have considered
00:51:12.079 it before I lost my legs
00:51:15.200 but why aren’t we all taught to think
00:51:18.559 about how our world is structured for
00:51:21.359 some people and not
00:51:24.599 others shouldn’t that be a consideration
00:51:27.680 in our counseling
00:51:29.880 practice and maybe if we were more aware
00:51:33.520 then those barriers wouldn’t have been
00:51:35.920 created in the first place
00:51:39.200 i mean all of us will hopefully live
00:51:42.160 long and full lives which means even the
00:51:46.240 fittest among us is eventually going to
00:51:48.960 have some mobility
00:51:52.599 challenges this means pushing for
00:51:55.200 systemic changes like mandatory training
00:51:58.640 in intersectionality for mental health
00:52:01.319 professionals and increased funding for
00:52:04.720 research with marginalized communities
00:52:08.400 next learn the importance of coalition
00:52:12.200 building intersectionality isn’t just
00:52:15.119 about highlighting
00:52:17.319 differences it’s about finding common
00:52:20.839 ground the reproductive justice movement
00:52:23.680 is a great
00:52:25.000 example founded by women of color it
00:52:28.400 unites diverse voices to address issues
00:52:31.599 like abortion access child care and
00:52:35.359 systemic racism
00:52:37.680 psychology can learn from this model by
00:52:40.480 fostering coalitions that challenge
00:52:43.200 systemic
00:52:45.240 barriers i recently attended a protest
00:52:48.400 calling for the boycott divestment and
00:52:51.359 sanctioning of Israel for the ongoing
00:52:54.400 genocide in Gaza
00:52:56.880 the protest was organized by a diverse
00:53:00.400 coalition of activist groups including
00:53:04.000 Palestine Solidarity Campaign South
00:53:07.040 African Jews for a free
00:53:09.240 Palestine healthcare workers for
00:53:11.440 Palestine queers for
00:53:13.559 Palestine Christians for Palestine Cape
00:53:16.720 Town lesbians and various local mosques
00:53:21.359 many of these groups are very small and
00:53:24.559 there are even fewer members of these
00:53:27.280 groups who would actually participate in
00:53:30.160 a protest and go out and march in the
00:53:33.680 sweltering heat of an African
00:53:37.000 summer but when we all came together we
00:53:41.359 formed a coalition of thousands of
00:53:44.520 people both in Cape Town and in
00:53:47.599 Johannesburg
00:53:52.559 finally we need to hold ourselves
00:53:55.960 accountable this means engaging with
00:53:58.599 intersectionality’s
00:54:00.200 roots reading the original texts
00:54:03.760 amplifying marginalized voices and
00:54:06.720 continually interrogating our own
00:54:10.280 practices as Patricia Hill Collins
00:54:12.880 reminds us intersectionality is not
00:54:15.839 about being inclusive for its own sake
00:54:19.040 it’s about analyzing and challenging
00:54:21.760 systems of
00:54:24.839 power
00:54:26.440 so intersectionality is not just a box
00:54:30.720 to tick or a flavor of the month it’s a
00:54:35.319 lens a tool and a call to action
00:54:40.720 it challenges us to see people in their
00:54:43.760 full complexity and to fight for a world
00:54:47.680 where that complexity is celebrated not
00:54:52.599 erased or
00:54:55.160 diminished intersectionality isn’t about
00:54:58.160 making psychology woke it’s about making
00:55:01.680 it
00:55:02.760 accurate just and relevant
00:55:07.119 so the next time you hear someone
00:55:09.280 dismiss intersectionality as too
00:55:12.160 political or too complicated remind them
00:55:16.960 people’s lives are complex and
00:55:19.920 psychology should be
00:55:25.480 too thanks again for being here this is
00:55:29.200 a subject very close to my heart and I
00:55:32.640 clearly enjoy talking about it so if you
00:55:36.559 have any thoughts or questions or
00:55:39.559 challenges or spicy takes on anything
00:55:42.960 I’ve said please reach out to me at
00:55:46.240 intersectional
00:55:47.720 psychology everywhere except
00:55:51.319 Twitter before I sign off for today I
00:55:55.680 also just want to say that I will never
00:55:58.640 be including any third-party ads on
00:56:02.000 intersectional
00:56:03.559 psychology which is great because it
00:56:06.400 means that you can be sure all the
00:56:09.359 information shared here is free from
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00:56:36.960 and also I will be following the lead of
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00:56:43.920 Beal Cast podcast and henceforth
00:56:47.359 referring to Patreon as Matreon
00:56:51.640 because honestly why are we still naming
00:56:54.960 things after the literal patriarchy in
00:56:58.480 2025
00:57:00.960 your contributions on the Matreon will
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00:57:29.520 next week we’re going to take a closer
00:57:31.839 look at the concept of social justice in
00:57:35.559 psychology and once we’ve covered this
00:57:38.319 first series of four episodes we’ll
00:57:42.000 start inviting guests onto the podcast
00:57:44.559 and look at more real-world applications
00:57:47.839 of intersectional
00:57:50.599 psychology so thank you for starting
00:57:53.920 this journey with me i hope you come a
00:57:57.359 long way with me and look after yourself
00:58:01.200 i’ll speak to you very
00:58:04.839 soon thank you for listening to
00:58:07.119 Intersectional
00:58:08.599 Psychology please follow or subscribe to
00:58:11.280 the podcast to get every episode if you
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00:58:28.720 this episode of Intersectional
00:58:31.160 Psychology was researched written
00:58:34.000 recorded and edited by me Aurora Brown
00:58:38.480 for a transcript of this episode please
00:58:41.119 see the link in the show notes on your
00:58:43.119 podcast app or go to intersectional
00:58:46.000 psychology.com
00:58:48.400 you can also check the website or the
00:58:50.720 show notes for a full list of references
00:58:53.520 for this
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